Barangay Saint Christine: Rapture by Rory Moore

When will the Church be Raptured?

by: Rory Moore

Much of the church is looking for the rapture and believes they will be leaving earth before the 7 years of tribulation. Longer, more in-depth articles are on this site should you desire to study further. (For discussion's sake, we use the term "rapture" that most people are familiar with. It is not a scriptural word, and the term "gathering" is more correct)

Part 1 Some of the prominent verses most often cited for the "pre-tribulation" rapture are: 1Thessalonians 4: 6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
7 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2Thessalonians 2: 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; 3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, 4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in **the temple of God, setting himself forth as God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

1Cor 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The three passages above are the most often cited " for the "pre-trib" rapture position. Since they are some of the clearest and most detailed passages relating to the return of Jesus Christ, we will confine our study to these three passages, for if they are not speaking of a "pre-trib" rapture, then neither do the other verses often cited to show a pre-trib rapture. Compare scripture with scripture:

In 1Thess 4:6 the Lord descends from heaven. There is a shout, the trump, the dead rise first, "we" that are alive are caught up into the clouds.

In 2Thess. 2, more details are given, there is a "falling away" (apostasy), "the man of sin revealed sitting in the temple", "our gathering unto Him", and His coming".

If the pre/mid-trib agrees with other verses of Christ returning that include the gathering, a trump, a shout, clouds, the dead rising first, and Christ returning, everything should fit.

Acts 1:9) And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they were looking steadfastly into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11) who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.

So far, we are told He will return like He left. There are witnesses on the ground looking up, and there are clouds.

Next, Matthew 24:29) But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If there is a pre/mid-trib rapture, at the "gathering together", disorder begins to confuse the signs.

The accompanying clouds appear twice, the "last" trumpet sounds twice, and even the "falling away" that comes "first", now becomes impossibly wrong because he wrote "EXCEPT" those things "come first", i.e., "the man of sin be revealed", "he that sits in the temple**".

As Jesus said in Mat. 24, "after the tribulation of those days..", "the Son of Man" comes "in the clouds with power and glory", and the trumpet, and the gathering together of His "elect" and most importantly, from 2Thessalonias 2, the dead rise first.

The same elect are spoken of in the alleged pre-trib verse;

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven?

The "elect" will be a remnant of those who come out from the confusion of religious Babylon (called "Christianity"), just as a remnant came out of sectarian (confused, divided) Judaism at Jesus' first visitation. This is what John wrote in Revelation 18 in regard to "Babylonian" Christianity.

Let's refute the idea there are two "elects", one being natural Israel and the other the church. There is one church, and it is not the denominated, sectarian, competitive, mix of *Babylonian Christianity.

Babylon means "confusion", which aptly describes the church world. ( Part 3 below gives the scriptural basis for one "elect" group.)

The "elect" who are saved, are those who are in Christ, and are addressed in the New Testament scriptures:

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as God's elect, holy and beloved (the church elect)

1st Peter 5:13 She that is in Babylon, elect together with you (the church elect)

Mark 13:22 for there shall arise false Christ’s and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect (the church elect)

There is one body of Christ, created by God through those who have been born from above as Jesus taught. The body of Christ is "all Israel" that shall be saved. An unregenerate Jew is lost as is an unregenerate gentile.

He is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit. -Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God even if they are born in Israel to full-blood Jewish parents.

Yet a remnant of those "natural" Jews will be saved and will be part of the "elect"..

The body of Christ is "all Israel" that shall be saved. Those who are not in Christ cannot be saved.

-Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God even if they are born in Israel to full-blood Jewish parents.

He is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit.

As it is written, remnant of those "natural" Jews will be saved and will be part of the "elect".

Romans 9:27 And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Part 2

Let's put the nail in the coffin of the pre or mid trib rapture.

That nail is called "the resurrection" and it takes place right along with "the dead shall be raised incorruptible" which happens at the time of the "rapture".

Here from the supposed "pre-trib rapture" verses above which state, "our gathering...", "gather together the elect", is the phrase "the dead in Christ shall rise first".

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect

When are the dead raised?

At the beginning of the seven years, the middle, or after the tribulation?

If the dead are raised at the beginning, or the middle of the trib, then there could be a "pre-(or mid) trib rapture". But if the dead are raised after the tribulation, the pre-mid trib scenario becomes impossible, for there would then need to be two resurrection-raptures in order to include the saints martyred during the tribulation.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord meet "together".

(1 Thes. 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout...and the dead in Christ shall rise first; ... (17) then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

(1 Cor. 15:51) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, (die) but we shall all be changed, (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead and all the living in Christ at this time are changed in the same moment

In our "rapture" verses, we have the dead and those alive raptured "together".

Let's see when the resurrection is:

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Is the "last day" of the resurrection 7 years before the end?

And can you have the "last day" followed by 7 years and the evidence of "saints" on earth during those 7 years?

And can you have those saints being saved and the trumpets sounding after the "last trump"?

But now there is another problem for the pre/mid tribbers.

There are the saints and martyrs who die during the tribulation, who John saw in Revelation 20:4, who are also part of the "elect",

AND part of the bride who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb DURING the TRIBULATION!

Revelation 7:14 And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This fits with Matthew 24:29) But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Therefore the time of the resurrection and the rapture take place at the end of the tribulation and before the "day of wrath", which is the year of vengeance Jesus spoke of. (The wrath is not for the saints)

Here are more tribulation saints who were slain

Revelation 7:14 And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

and in Daniel 7:25 ..the beast shall. speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.

26 But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Notice here, the One Body of elect saints killed during the tribulation:

Revelation 7:9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands.

Did they miss the rapture? Since the rapture AND resurrection happen together, will those saints miss the resurrection too? Of course not.

The only way to have "the elect" "together" with "the dead in Christ" that "rise first" to join together with those who "are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord", at the "last trump", with the "clouds of heaven", and the "voice of the archangel" that was there in Acts 1:9 is to have all those signs take place at the end of the tribulation.

Do you still believe the rapture takes place at the beginning of the tribulation yet the rapture-resurrection happen "at the LAST day"?

Peter told of events in relating to Christ's coming in 2Peter3:4 ...Where is the promise of his coming?

(3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Job agrees in Job 14:12 So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep.

How can the heavens pass away and earth burn up at the beginning or even the middle of the seven years? No one would be left for the tribulation

Part 3 (optional) -read only if you are not sure what God said of Israel and the church

The one church, found undivided in the Book of Acts, did not have a building, "church name", pope, Bishop, or any of the titles used in Babylonian Christianity.

Nor was it divided between Jews and gentile, it is "a holy nation" of spiritual Israel. Because there is ONE faith, one church, one Lord, part of the church cannot be divided at two separate returns of Christ, who told us He would return as stated in the scriptures above. One Israel saved, not two

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: (29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ

1st Corinthians 10:17 seeing that we, who are many, are one bread, one body: for we are all partake of the one bread

1st Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body

Ephesians 2 absolutely sets forth there is no more division in the church between a natural Jew and a gentile who is "a Jew inwardly" when born again.

Eph. 2 notes there is one body consisting of Jew and gentile:

11 Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Un-circumcision by that which is called Circumcision (natural Jews), in the flesh, made by hands;

12 that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition

15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two so making peace;

16 and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 ..and preached peace to you that were far off (gentiles), and peace to them that were nigh (Jews):

18 for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father.

19 So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

20 being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;

21 in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord;

22 in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.

"Saved" Israel, the elect, include a remnant of natural Jews who are saved by being born again and obey the New Covenant, and become part of the "one body" of Christ: one body, whether Jews or Greeks

Galatians 3:28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling

If "all ISRAEL shall be saved, and there is ONE BODY, which is "a HOLY NATION", who is the "elect" "remnant" that Christ returns for, then we can be sure that it is the church who is made up of those saved out of BOTH groups, both the living and the dead.

There is one body which is neither Jew nor gentile, but one new man in Christ. We both are the one building, one holy temple not made with hands, one holy nation, in Christ, not through the flesh

** This also tells us that the "anti-christ" will not be revealed in a building-temple, made with hands because the scripture repeatedly state "you are the temple of the living God...", and God "dwells NOT in a temple made with hands".

Thus there is no "rapture" of the gentile church and God then turning to the Jew separately during the tribulation. Saints from "every nation, tribe,.. and peoples" are martyred and resurrected at the end.

Romans 9:27 And Iaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:

Romans 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written

1st Peter 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession

Once again, "ALL Israel, the "elect race" are the born again children of God, born from above, from both groups Jew and gentile, who make up the one "holy nation", who is the New Testament temple building "not made with hands, and populates the "New Jerusalem coming down from above". Rory Moore

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